Quote:Abstract

The Yamnaya archaeological complex appeared around 3300BCE across the steppes north of the Black and Caspian Seas, and by 3000BCE reached its maximal extent from Hungary in the west to Kazakhstan in the east. To localize the ancestral and geographical origins of the Yamnaya among the diverse Eneolithic people that preceded them, we studied ancient DNA data from 428 individuals of which 299 are reported for the first time, demonstrating three previously unknown Eneolithic genetic clines. First, a "Caucasus-Lower Volga" (CLV) Cline suffused with Caucasus hunter-gatherer (CHG) ancestry extended between a Caucasus Neolithic southern end in Neolithic Armenia, and a steppe northern end in Berezhnovka in the Lower Volga. Bidirectional gene flow across the CLV cline created admixed intermediate populations in both the north Caucasus, such as the Maikop people, and on the steppe, such as those at the site of Remontnoye north of the Manych depression. CLV people also helped form two major riverine clines by admixing with distinct groups of European hunter-gatherers. A "Volga Cline" was formed as Lower Volga people mixed with upriver populations that had more Eastern hunter-gatherer (EHG) ancestry, creating genetically hyper-variable populations as at Khvalynsk in the Middle Volga. A "Dnipro Cline" was formed as CLV people bearing both Caucasus Neolithic and Lower Volga ancestry moved west and acquired Ukraine Neolithic hunter-gatherer (UNHG) ancestry to establish the population of the Serednii Stih culture from which the direct ancestors of the Yamnaya themselves were formed around 4000BCE. This population grew rapidly after 3750-3350BCE, precipitating the expansion of people of the Yamnaya culture who totally displaced previous groups on the Volga and further east, while admixing with more sedentary groups in the west. CLV cline people with Lower Volga ancestry contributed four fifths of the ancestry of the Yamnaya, but also, entering Anatolia from the east, contributed at least a tenth of the ancestry of Bronze Age Central Anatolians, where the Hittite language, related to the Indo-European languages spread by the Yamnaya, was spoken. We thus propose that the final unity of the speakers of the "Proto-Indo-Anatolian" ancestral language of both Anatolian and Indo-European languages can be traced to CLV cline people sometime between 4400-4000 BCE."

Quote:The western expansion of the Core Yamnaya also brought them into southeastern Europe; Yamnaya there or other individuals of “high steppe ancestry” can be found as far west and south as Albania and Bulgaria.  6 Many western Yamnaya cluster with the Core Yamnaya, but many  also deviate in the direction of Neolithic and Chalcolithic populations of southeastern and central  Europe (Fig. 4b) and can be modeled with admixture from such populations (Extended Data Table 4). This admixture also took place in the late 4 th millennium BCE (Extended Data Fig. 2c), after the sporadic early Chalcolithic migrations into southeastern Europe from the steppe.36 

It is interesting that after the Don Yamnaya formed they participated little or not at all in the Core  Yamnaya expansion to either the Altai or SE Europe, and thus the Lower Don represented a cul de-sac for the Yamnaya expansion.

(04-18-2024, 07:13 PM)Archetype0ne Wrote:

Quote:The western expansion of the Core Yamnaya also brought them into southeastern Europe; Yamnaya there or other individuals of “high steppe ancestry” can be found as far west and south as Albania and Bulgaria.  6 Many western Yamnaya cluster with the Core Yamnaya, but many  also deviate in the direction of Neolithic and Chalcolithic populations of southeastern and central  Europe (Fig. 4b) and can be modeled with admixture from such populations (Extended Data Table 4). This admixture also took place in the late 4 th millennium BCE (Extended Data Fig. 2c), after the sporadic early Chalcolithic migrations into southeastern Europe from the steppe.36 

It is interesting that after the Don Yamnaya formed they participated little or not at all in the Core  Yamnaya expansion to either the Altai or SE Europe, and thus the Lower Don represented a cul de-sac for the Yamnaya expansion.

(04-18-2024, 07:38 PM)old europe Wrote:

(04-18-2024, 07:13 PM)Archetype0ne Wrote:

Quote:The western expansion of the Core Yamnaya also brought them into southeastern Europe; Yamnaya there or other individuals of “high steppe ancestry” can be found as far west and south as Albania and Bulgaria.  6 Many western Yamnaya cluster with the Core Yamnaya, but many  also deviate in the direction of Neolithic and Chalcolithic populations of southeastern and central  Europe (Fig. 4b) and can be modeled with admixture from such populations (Extended Data Table 4). This admixture also took place in the late 4 th millennium BCE (Extended Data Fig. 2c), after the sporadic early Chalcolithic migrations into southeastern Europe from the steppe.36 

It is interesting that after the Don Yamnaya formed they participated little or not at all in the Core  Yamnaya expansion to either the Altai or SE Europe, and thus the Lower Don represented a cul de-sac for the Yamnaya expansion.

Maybe I'm wrong but there is a R1b L51 in the ukranian hunter gather rich Don Yamnaya samples. So maybe noyt a dead end. Also plenty of I L699 in the Dneper Don samples older than the one in the Volga

(04-18-2024, 07:48 PM)Archetype0ne Wrote:

(04-18-2024, 07:38 PM)old europe Wrote: Maybe I'm wrong but there is a R1b L51 in the ukranian hunter gather rich Don Yamnaya samples. So maybe noyt a dead end. Also plenty of I L699 in the Dneper Don samples older than the one in the Volga

Not quite sure. Its a direct quote. I was searching (ctrl + f) for Albania and that came up, so I posted it recalling the earlier debate in the other thread.

(04-18-2024, 07:38 PM)old europe Wrote:

(04-18-2024, 07:13 PM)Archetype0ne Wrote:

Quote:The western expansion of the Core Yamnaya also brought them into southeastern Europe; Yamnaya there or other individuals of “high steppe ancestry” can be found as far west and south as Albania and Bulgaria.  6 Many western Yamnaya cluster with the Core Yamnaya, but many  also deviate in the direction of Neolithic and Chalcolithic populations of southeastern and central  Europe (Fig. 4b) and can be modeled with admixture from such populations (Extended Data Table 4). This admixture also took place in the late 4 th millennium BCE (Extended Data Fig. 2c), after the sporadic early Chalcolithic migrations into southeastern Europe from the steppe.36 

It is interesting that after the Don Yamnaya formed they participated little or not at all in the Core  Yamnaya expansion to either the Altai or SE Europe, and thus the Lower Don represented a cul de-sac for the Yamnaya expansion.

Maybe I'm wrong but there is a R1b L51 in the ukranian hunter gather rich Don Yamnaya samples. So maybe noyt a dead end. Also plenty of I L699 in the Dneper Don samples older than the one in the Volga

(04-19-2024, 04:56 AM)old europe Wrote: The R1a from Bulgaria has been modeled differently in another part of the paper

Bulgaria_C_ProtoYamnaya

Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic 17.5%
Usatovo 82.5%

Quote: Transcript of conversation between Khan and Kristiansen:

Khan: “And then with Albanian, I read that paper and it seemed like Albanian/Illyrian is probably directly Yamnaya. Where do you stand on Greek? Is Greek….ah…”

Kristiansen: “Well, well, that is, of course, the $100 dollar question. We have the answer to that and we are about to publish it. We are still working…we are finalizing, fine tuning the manuscript for the Bronze Age Genomic and Linguistic History of the Bronze Age Mediterranean and we have an answer to that.

(04-19-2024, 11:29 AM)Archetype0ne Wrote: I wonder how do we interpret this?

"Pre-Indo-Anatolian languages were spoken by at least some of these diverse ancestors, but living Indo-European languages trace their ongins to the Yamnaya expansion ca. 3300BCE out of (3) and the earlier Indo-Anatolian expansion ca 4400-4000BCE out of (1)"

Does the <"out of" one> have the meaning of "bar"/"except". And if so would this mean that Armenian, Greek and Albanian (3) and Anatolian IE (1) somehow diversified from the stem pre Yamnaya?

(04-19-2024, 11:38 AM)Jaska Wrote:

(04-19-2024, 11:29 AM)Archetype0ne Wrote: I wonder how do we interpret this?

"Pre-Indo-Anatolian languages were spoken by at least some of these diverse ancestors, but living Indo-European languages trace their ongins to the Yamnaya expansion ca. 3300BCE out of (3) and the earlier Indo-Anatolian expansion ca 4400-4000BCE out of (1)"

Does the <"out of" one> have the meaning of "bar"/"except". And if so would this mean that Armenian, Greek and Albanian (3) and Anatolian IE (1) somehow diversified from the stem pre Yamnaya?

To me it looks clear: all the living IE languages, including Armenian, Greek, and Albanian, stem from 3, and only Anatolian stems from 1. It means that after the phase 1, Pre-Proto-Anatolian branched off, and only after the phase 3, all the other branches (possibly excl. Tocharian, which is not living any longer) branched off.

(04-19-2024, 11:38 AM)Jaska Wrote:

(04-19-2024, 11:29 AM)Archetype0ne Wrote: I wonder how do we interpret this?

"Pre-Indo-Anatolian languages were spoken by at least some of these diverse ancestors, but living Indo-European languages trace their ongins to the Yamnaya expansion ca. 3300BCE out of (3) and the earlier Indo-Anatolian expansion ca 4400-4000BCE out of (1)"

Does the <"out of" one> have the meaning of "bar"/"except". And if so would this mean that Armenian, Greek and Albanian (3) and Anatolian IE (1) somehow diversified from the stem pre Yamnaya?

To me it looks clear: all the living IE languages, including Armenian, Greek, and Albanian, stem from 3, and only Anatolian stems from 1. It means that after the phase 1, Pre-Proto-Anatolian branched off, and only after the phase 3, all the other branches (possibly excl. Tocharian, which is not living any longer) branched off.